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You will find news, observations, anecdotes, analysis and photographs on this blog. The purpose is to keep readers informed, but also give them a feel for the team and its players, and a place to go to read about baseball.

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Ryan Divish has been with Tacoma News Tribune since 2006, covering the Tacoma Rainiers and high school sports. Divish played baseball at Dickinson State University and also earned a journalism degree from the University of Montana.
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Larry LaRue has covered the Seattle Mariners and Major League Baseball for The News Tribune since 1988. E-mail Larry.

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Tuesday, December 4th, 2007
Posted by Larry LaRue @ 01:06:01 pm

The issue that seems to have agitated the populace over at the big boat Mariner isn’t whether Seattle will land Erik Bedard but why the team didn’t offer salary arbitration to outfielder Jose Guillen.

If they had, the argument goes, they’d have picked up a supplemental draft pick when the Kansas City Royals signed Guillen in the wee hours Tuesday morning.

The online concensus: GM Bill Bavasi and his staff are all boneheads.

Why else wouldn’t they offer Guillen arbitration? Simple, they suspected he’d take them up on it – and there’s evidence he would have.

The offer Guillen accepted Tuesday had been on the table for more than 10 days and hadn’t changed. Guillen didn’t accept it until after the Mariners declined to offer him arbitration.

Had the Mariners offered, and had Guillen accepted, the Mariners would have had to offer one figure, Guillen and agent Adam Katz another – and an arbiter would have picked one salary for the 2008 season.

That means Guillen might have asked for and won as much as $11 million from a team that a) had no room for him in its outfield and b) didn’t really want him back.

Why would Guillen choose arbitration for one season over a three-year deal with the Royals? First, he wanted to come back and, say teammates who have talked with him, wouldn’t have minded surprising the Seattle front office by accepting arbitration.

And second, he has genuine affection for manager John McLaren and hitting coach Jeff Pentland and thoroughly enjoyed his time as a Mariner.

Bavasi and his staff knew all this. The financial risk wasn’t minor – it would have been more than $8 million had they offered arbitration and won their case. Instead, Guillen is a Royal and the Mariners wish him well.

Categories: General 16 comments

COMMENTS:

doubleog @ 16:44 - Tuesday, December 4th, 2007
What a mess. The tiny ship is lost.
tait644 @ 18:03 - Tuesday, December 4th, 2007 Email
So let me get this straight, Larry:


The Mariners didn't want to bring Guillen back because they didn't want a happy player who hit .290 with 23 HRs and 99 RBI on the roster?

When the alternatives are: an untested Wlad Balentien, the horrifically bad LF Raul Ibanez, or an unknown option C?

Really?

The Mariners were so scared of paying a productive RF $11 million for ONE STINKING YEAR that they were willing to do without a possible top-40 pick?

Really?

That truly is boneheaded thinking.
Ruskell_Guy @ 18:36 - Tuesday, December 4th, 2007 Email
Fact: Bavasi is retarded.

Tait644 said it all. I'd take Guillen over Ibanez.
Larry LaRue @ 20:15 - Tuesday, December 4th, 2007 Email
Bottom line, Ibanez is the left fielder, Ichiro the center fielder and - for now - Adam Jones the right fielder.
Given that, you want to pay Guillen $12 million to do what, sit?
Walrus @ 22:43 - Tuesday, December 4th, 2007
Larry. With all due respect that you have earned thru the years, I whole heartedly believe you have too close of a relationship with the M's FO / Bavasi, if you actually believe what you wrote.
There is NO WAY that ANYONE could believe that the M's would have NO USE for Guillen. What if they actually pulled off one of the trades that you have mentioned the past couple of days - like Santana or Bedard or Cliff Lee or whomever...the M's would be trading one of these OFs and would be stuck with having to try to sign Darin Erstad for 3 years and $15Mil or someone / some contract worse. Further, As I have written on many blogs, Bavasi and the M's FO raved about Guillen's attitude and how Guillen was a vocal and clubhouse leader - A LEADER that LEAD the M's to almost 90 wins. A LEADER that MANY CURRENT M's like and respect. A LEADER who now has to be replaced, and it is virtually a guarantee that the NEW LEADER will be no where near the player or be signed for as budget friendly of a contract as Guillen.
For whatever it is worth, if the M's failed to make a trade, and the M's were stuck with 4 OFs, or really 4 OFs and 2 or 3 1B/DH types like last year, maybe just maybe, Maclaren would know how to properly rotate the 6 or 7 players in the 5 positions every 6 or 7 games - meaning everyone would play 6 out 7 games and get a days rest every week. Of course, that might be too difficult of a concept for Maclaren, Bavasi or the rest of the M's FO.
iqbal70 @ 06:23 - Wednesday, December 5th, 2007 Email
No team rotates 6 or 7 players between 5 spots to give them 6 out of 7 games. Players want to play full time and if they don't and they are high profile types (like Guillen) they cause problems. What the M's really needed to do was find someone to take Sexson off their hands even if they have to pay all of his salary, move Ibanez to 1B and then keep Guillen in RF and Jones in LF. Difficult? Sure, but they are going to pay Richie's salary anyway and at least they could have cleared out a black hole in the lineup.
Larry LaRue @ 06:49 - Wednesday, December 5th, 2007 Email
The Mariners explanation stands: Once they decided to go in another direction, Guillen was not someone they wanted to risk having to pay.
Guillen is a different fellow, as his track record shows. He was a model citizen last year and a fine player. He was also angry that the team didn't offer him a multi-year deal.
Bringing him back under those circumstances probably wouldn't have been ideal for Guillen or the team, and he would not have been happy unless starting.
fwconquest @ 13:18 - Wednesday, December 5th, 2007 Email
The Mariners also had to give Gullen a $500,000 buyout to not offer arbitration, and even had he accepted arbitration they could have released him and only owed him around $2 mil. So it was a $1.5 mil risk, not an $11 mil risk. Besides, if the Mariners did later work out a deal with Jones/Balentien/Ibanez in the mix, then Guillen would be a nice, already-signed insurance policy.

If the Mariners work out any deal at the meetings to get pitching, Jones will most surely be gone. Then you'll have to sign another gamble like Jenkins or Bradley and hope he can be the next Guillen.

Nope, should've offered Guillen arbitration, and if he didn't take it you get a nice draft pick, if he did take it you got a nice insurance policy for the upcoming deals.
Larry LaRue @ 13:26 - Wednesday, December 5th, 2007 Email
FW - Major league rules forbid a team releasing a player because of a contract. If Guillen was healthy and was released, he'd be owed the entire contract, not a percentage of it.
The team viewed the risk as real. Had Guillen accepted arbitration, they'd have owed him whatever he was awarded.
tait644 @ 15:42 - Wednesday, December 5th, 2007 Email
Larry, the solution is pretty simple: Make Ibanez the DH. He should never be allowed to play LF again, and the Mariners should know this (doubting they actually do, but that's another story).

So no, they would not have paid Guillen $12 million to sit. And I don't buy for a second that they didn't have a spot for Guillen. If they are really reserving LF for Ibanez, then that's just another example of Bavasi's stupidity.
Larry LaRue @ 18:51 - Wednesday, December 5th, 2007 Email
tait - hard to move ibanez to dh when that spot is filled by vidro.
tait644 @ 20:50 - Wednesday, December 5th, 2007 Email
Larry - Vidro shouldn't be the regular DH. I know this isn't a discussion about roster construction, but just as Ibanez has no business playing LF, neither does Vidro have any business being a full-time DH. What would be ideal is if Vidro and Ibanez platoon at the DH spot. Ibanez can't hit lefties, so let Vidro DH against RHPs. Otherwise, he should be a bench bat.

Or, get rid of Broussard and Sexson (which I am sure they are trying to do), put Ibanez at 1B, and let Vidro DH.

Point being, they had plenty of viable options to fit Guillen in just in case he actually accepted arbitration. But apparently the chance for a top-40 comp pick wasn't worth the hassle.

If I have to choose between giving full-time ABs to Guillen or Vidro, I give them to Guillen every time.

Bavasi is an idiot.
tait644 @ 20:51 - Wednesday, December 5th, 2007 Email
Oops, that should read: "let vidro DH against LHPs."
Larry LaRue @ 06:50 - Thursday, December 6th, 2007 Email
Everyone has a theory of what to do with someone else's money. Vidro hit .300 and is a valuable piece of the lineup. Ibanez is a productive hitter when healthy. Seattle will find a way to keep both in the lineup.
tait644 @ 10:00 - Thursday, December 6th, 2007 Email
Yes, Vidro hit .314.

He also managed to slug less than .400. His Batting Average on Balls in Play was .337, which is .37 points above league average. Since he's not a speedster, this means he basically had an above-average number of balls find holes. He can't field. He can't run. His only contributions are with the bat, and there are dozens of players in the minors who could provide more production than Vidro.


As for Raul, he has a lifetime .708 OPS against lefties. He had a .650 OPS against lefties in 2007. He has no business getting ABs against lefties - it hurts the team, just as Vidro's lack of production as a DH does.
dahyatt @ 12:33 - Thursday, December 6th, 2007 Email
"Everyone has a theory of what to do with someone else's money"

Especially when that money is, by and large, generated by us...the fans.

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