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Real estate agents, already feeling the brunt of a slowing market, are now facing the brunt of a Pierce County sign law.
Last month, county road crews began removing and throwing away signs found to be illegally installed on the county right of way. Among many of them: ones used to market homes for sale and open houses.
The sign roundup is part of a county-wide effort to enforce long-time sign laws that was tested last summer with a two-month pilot program intended to declutter roadways.
Since Feb. 15, county workers have collected and taken to the dump 1,320 signs, said Bruce Wagner, the county’s road operations division manger. Nearly half were real-estate related, he said.
Agents who’ve lost signs are lamenting the cost of replacement, inconsistently applied rules and the harm the removals are causing their business.
“The county’s never been this aggressive in doing it,” said Jo Jensen, an owner of the Re/Max Partners office in Gig Harbor. “It’s impacting our business, it’s damaging, it’s very costly. It’s not just the agents that are upset, it’s the sellers. In a market where there’s lots of inventory, signs are one of the things that make their phones ring.”
County staff and real estate agents are meeting today to discuss the sign removal efforts.
A typical yard sign, Jensen said, costs about $25 plus another $50 for the wood post. Ordering replacements can take two to three weeks, she said.
During the pilot program, Wagner said county workers stored the signs so they could be retrieved. But, he said, it became difficult and time-consuming to determine who owned which signs, and so now they go to the landfill, he said.
Recycling those with recyclable materials would cost $56 per ton and is an option, he said.
When workers are in the field, the rule of thumb they use to determine the right of way is to look for utility poles and boxes, because they’re typically on the edge of the right of way, Wagner said.
“If it’s questionable, my staff has been told to leave it,” he said. “Anything clearly inside it is taken.”
Windermere real estate John Gregory said he’s had 14 sandwich board-type signs taken and a larger sign sawed off its post in the last three weeks. Gregory is selling homes at Linden Tree, a small subdivision in Spanaway, and said he tries to keep signs out of the right of way by making sure they don’t block drivers’ sight lines.
But Gregory said he’s particularly frustrated, because there’s no sure way of telling where the right of way starts and ends.
“It’s hard to determine where they mean in every situation,” he said.
COMMENTS:
They will not feel the pressure of lost revenue if they just shop at Signs Now in Tacoma!
As for lost posts, just 1 in front of every home for sale and 1 or 2 as you enter a development. Where the heck are they placing all these signs that they have to meet county officials to discuss.
JUST TAKE THEM DOWN! The COUNTY has spoken! We took all ours down. Well...............most.
Ray Pepper
www.500Realty.net
And dumping them in the landfill? Terribly irresponsible. Literally 1000's of pounds of re-usable, recyclable materials were burried before we ever had a chance to retrieve them.
I'm all for the county cleaning things up. Signs were littering our community. But a one week warning would have saved money, waste, and hard feelings.
I sure am glad we won't have to be bombarded by election signs this year though...wait, what's that? Political campaign signs are exempt and you can place as many as you want wherever you want? Oh...got it.
Ray, it's nice to see you operate your business by leading with revenue. However, I've seen your signs, and no offense, but I'll continue to have mine printed with a little class.
Our new signs I ordered you will find much more classy. The old signs resulted in too many people calling us stating ..."HEY...is that home 500.00?" So now they will no longer get confused...
What we choose to save on signs we pass onto the consumer...What a concept!. We can get $25.00 or 50.00 signs but why..It will not facilitate the sale any quicker! Education will!
Broker it appears you are somewhat saavy. If you were looking to relocate somewhere out of state and were going to buy a home listed on the MLS I know you would seek out a 500 Realty type company to get all the money back at close. Do you know why you would?-----------------------------------
Because you have knowledge! You know the "dirty little secret" Thats all it is Broker....Education...I would love to discuss real Estate with you or any other Real Estate Professional in an Open Forum. Maybe all of Devonna's bloggers.
There is alot to talk about...Isn't there Broker? the Buffet is coming to an end! And thats where you will be feeling it.....
See..thats what you get for taking a jab at our OLD 500 Realty sign...me on a soap box...Keep buying your 50.00 classy signs. I assure you they will not be seen by many in coming years!
Ray Pepper
www.500Realty.net
Discount Brokerages in downturn? Are you kidding me? Statistical fact? My oh My. I think you need to do some DD and read about the Demise of the Brick and Mortar Real Estate Profession that appeared in Barrons and the WSJ.
What are you hiding from? Me? If you are a fellow Realtor I will welcome you with open arms but I'm not sure you are.
Anyway Good Day...Get to work!
Ray Pepper
www.500Realty.net
Sadly,this was another meeting the TNT didn't cover so you all were left in the dark from this source also.
Maybe you should be also asking the TNT where their reporting was?
PS- For $25 a sign and $50 for a stake.....I think you all need to be more aware of code before placing signs.....
"The mainstream news media is one of the real reasons people are crying the blues about the RE market at this time"
Shooting the messenger isn't going to reverse the subprime mortgage collapse.
I wasn't going to say it but since other have eluded to it..here goes......
Blaming the media shows your distinct incompetence and now I realize we will never know who you are. You will make a different name for yourself on this blog but it just shows how out of touch you are with reality of what is going on in the Nation. I suggest you attend my lecture at Boeing in May. Its free! You will learn more in 45 minutes with me then you have in all your educational "training" at your Magical Real Estate Company.......
Want to know what we are in for? Do you know why prices will continue to come down? Want to know why the mkt will not see any stabilization until 2010-12? Want to know why you should watch MER very closely over the next 2 weeks? Why you should listen to C, WMT, LEN, HOV, KBH, WM, BA, and AXP. When you LISTEN to what is happening around you the obvious will be apparent.
When I graduated with my RN they started all the education with Anatomy and Physiology. Right outta the gates you had to learn how the body is SUPPOSED to work correctly. When the disease process takes over it will not make any sense if you don't.
The country is bleeding profusely. Bernanke is doing a stellar job at placing bandages over wounds and I'm very impressed. In fact, its been out right GENIUS.
But as a GREAT CEO said 30 days ago" If the masses realize the costs to stay in the home is not worth the effort due to depreciating values, higher taxes, higher insurance, higher upkeep, and the generalized feeling of a home being a noose around your neck weighing you down then our economy will forsee unprecedented declines in the Capital Mkts resulting in a collapsed economy.
WE MUST SUSTAIN HOME VALUES AND OFFER INCENTIVES FOR THE MASSES TO STAY IN THEIR HOMES IN COMING YEARS!!..REMEMBER THIS BROKER. ITS A POWERFUL STATEMENT. The Fed will be pulling out all the stops over the next 12 months and will also get OIL under control. I know this.
Broker--WE HAVE SEVERE PROBLEMS GOING FORWARD. Comments about the Media being a cause are incompetent. All recessions start with a trigger. The trigger was 911. If your lucky one day you will here the rest of the story from ME.
Ray Pepper
www.500Realty.net
Even cheap signs can end up costing a bunch if their not within code.
Those $168,000 are tax payers' dollars. I'm not arguing that the code should have been followed in the first place, but if you read the code on the county website it is VERY vague (as evidenced by Pepper's remarks that he just puts one at the house and one at the entrance to the development...that's illegal Ray. You can ONLY have one on the property).
A simpler, clearer code, one that gets enforced rather than ignored for years, and communication from the county would have saved us $168k!
Idozy1, I'm not sure what that meeting was you referred to, but sounds like you're right and somebody should have passed some info along.
We have a development that we signed around in Everett. They have a different sign ordinance policy. Before we have our delivery service deliver any signs we check! We have none in Pierce County as of yet. So we just continue with 1 sign in front of each home.
Do NOT place words in my mouth. There is a long line of people who do that anyway.
Ray Pepper
www.500Realty.net
It was March 10th PC Development Committee. The lady from MBA ( Tammy? Tina?) was there.. the TNT was not... between the two both had the chance to get information out.
And the reason I mentioned the fines ( which I probably low balled) is because the County has spent so much so far in cleaning up violations. I have no doubt that either this time or next you all will be getting fines to to start paying for this.
I understand its dependent on property lines but.. aren't you all selling this property? Isn't that information on property line part of the package? And on the street signs... you all know as well as I that too many have totally ignored any attempt at following code. A simple drive down almost any road verifies this ( well.. maybe not this week.. :))
"As for lost posts, just 1 in front of every home for sale and 1 or 2 as you enter a development. Where the heck are they placing all these signs that they have to meet county officials to discuss."
Did you forget saying that?
None of what you're saying overrides the fact that the county dumped 1000's of pounds of re-usable, recyclable materials in a landfill. Charge the agents, fine us, fine the small businesses that put the signs where they shouldn't be, but don't waste tax payers' money and load a landfill when you don't have to.
The fed has pulled out all the stops. You could put interest to .5, does that change the over extended amount of debt that each individual American is suffering from. Debt is the problem so making debt cheaper doesnt help anyone but corporations that have the ability to raise millions. Monetary policy tells us that in order to hedge inflation or a weakened dollar, you have to raise interest rate to discourage spending and which takes out the abundance of dollars making our dollar weaker and worth less. If your hoping and waiting on the fed to turn things around you will be waiting for a long time, the only thing the fed and the stimulus package is going to do is boost peoples optimism until reality hits again and they realize that they are in the same amount of debt and the same wage category there were before all this stimulus packages and rate cuts. I assure you the government, after the package is realeased has done 99% of what they can do to help. Unfortunately to let markets correct themselves would spill all throughout the economy and severely cripple our financial markets and banking system. Real Catch 22 but it goes to show that spend, spend, spend doesnt help the the economy in the longr un just as the long believed tax cuts dont
2) please sell a few houses in South Tacoma... this glut of inventory at a reasonable price. I am tired of seeing the same empty houses for sale on my way home from work.
3) Stop ranting back and forth at each other; insults are no way to make a better name for yourselves... if you haven't noticed actual potential buyers and sellers read this blog daily.
I am a normal "Jane" not realated to real estate but rather highly intersted in building knowledge.
~ Devona... I read RE Blogs all over the nation... don't stop this is one of te best!! Thank you TNT!!
However saying that I'm going to go against the tide here and say we did it to ourselves, collectively that is. I know of one neighborhood that at one of it's entrances had 11 full size "for sale" signs. It looked like a cemetery! There's one agent in GH who had her directional arrows set out a mile or more from a home, and in some cases at high volume intersections leading to nowhere.
We didn't police ourselves and here we are. Yeah, the county could have better spent that money elsewhere, but they enforced the law. Hopefully we'll learn from it. Sign calls are much more effective in generating calls than newspaper ads, sorry Devona. Therefore we need to preserve our rights to place signs and arrows as best we can before gov't clamps down even harder.
And then there's that old bugger of "Ignorance of the law excuses no man; not that all men know the law; but because 'tis an excuse every man will plead, and no man can tell how to confute him." - John Selden, 1689.
If a defendant were allowed to escape legal responsibility for his acts, merely by saying "I didn't know it was wrong/illegal", the system of using law to regulate human conduct would collapse. So the doctrine is a practical necessity.
And I close with this:
Everyone is feeling the strain of this oncoming recession. Does that mean that every business owner, be it a dog groomer, grocery providers, tire repair shops, etc., should all be permitted to post their signs wherever they want? Noooooooooo.
Is my position clear, or do I need to state it again?
just kidding ....
So what do we learn from all this????????
Less signage!.....more internet advertising! ......Imagine that? What a concept! Tell people to use the internent more to find their home and not clutter the county with signs. We at 500 Realty are in full support.......
Ray Pepper
Broker
www.500Realty.net
There are also strict laws on posting ANY/ALL off-site signage in unincorporated Pierce County.
This means you cannot simply move your signs a few feet back onto private property and call it good. It is against the law.
Even if you obtain the property owner's permission, it is still against the law, and in fact, if you solicit approval from a private property owner to post your sign, you could be charged with solicitation [to commit a crime].
Take the time to listen to the following audio excerpt from the Sign adhoc committee by pasting the following link into your browser - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS79jL9bwfo.
You will hear questions from members of the real-estate and development industries, and answers from County employees, disputing the irresponsible assumption that off-site signage is allowed.
Stacy Emerson
Pierce County Street Spam Eradication Campaign
Ray Pepper - So far you are one of the few people within the real estate arena that are people-centered. On your encouraging I have gone to 500realty and do plan to use them when I buy a house.
With that said please try to keep things civil. This is the only blog in our area that even offers the kind of information that interests buyers like me. Buyers that are looking for more than interest rate changes, or what agents choose to disclose.
You've converted one, and now I tell everyone that I know is interested in purchasing a home. In a time of depreciating values, it is important to save as much as you can. I'll be asking for you by name when I come.
Gig Harbor Undressed - As a fellow Gig Harbor citizen it angers me too, but in reality something had to be done. The signs were EVERYWHERE. If you thought the news was bad, driving home every day past sign after sign of homes for sale....that did more to reassert my fears of a recession more than anything else. Look at the bright side though, sales will pick up in spring and summer, they always do, but if you think it will be anything like the last few years you're kidding yourself. I for one will be holding off.
SGT Lutcavich, Rex
Currently in the Sand Box
I got my real estate license over 10 years ago for only 1 reason. That was to get the commission when I bought. That commission helped me buy many more homes. Its alot of money. Utilizing the funds of sellers I was able to accumulate many more homes then I otherwise could have.
There will be many more companies over the next decade performing real estate to the benefit of the consumer but for now there is one head and shoulders above the rest! I look very forward to more coming to help us in the education! As hard as we try people still get mixed messages and are not told the TRUTH.
Always look! Always!! But, Never.... EVER....... call the name on the Sign. EDUCATE YOURSELF WASHINGTON!
Ray Pepper
www.500Realty.net
The signs not only looked trashy, but as you mentioned stirred an unnecessary fear in buyers.
Thanks for your input.
Ray - Keep preaching. Just remember all agents aren't bad, they are just refusing to acknowledge the interdependence that will/has reshaped the RE world. Plus they are protecting their livelihood, something we can all understand in economically troubled times.
Also wanted to say something about your internet advertising point. Extremely valid. Increasing internet advertising, making the search experience interesting and the interface easy should keep traffic up and get you hits. As a buyer I search the internet first, map out my route, then it's me, mapquest, and the open road. Signs don't have an impact. Plus gas is costly don't have enough cash to drive from sign to sign.
Gig Harbor - No I didn't read your letter, wish I had. Sounds like your views are sound. Glad there are still those, even at the municipal level, who still want to know where thier tax money is going, and willing to speak out when it seems fiscal responsibility is being abused.
Just wanted to conclude with I love this blog. The facilitator needs to give herself a nice little pat on the back.
You seem to be a wonderful, and wise person. Come home soon, we need more good guys in Pierce County. Hopefully you'll buy a home in the Midland community. You'd make a great neighbor :)
Stacy Emerson
stacy.emerson@gmail.com
It's all about the bunt pan.
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