The referees who met with the players after today's second practice will meet with the media after Friday morning's session to talk about what they addressed the players about, as well as to discuss any rules changes. I will blog about it after we meet with them to clarify any thing they say.

I am going on KJR with Elise Woodward tonight at about 8:15. Not sure exactly about the topics we are scheduled to cover.

As Boling works on his Brendan Mebane column for tomorrow's paper, he is relaying these thoughts to me:

1) In some live rush offense drills, offense looked very good. Alexander had two long runs off left side behind Walter Jones and Sims.

2) Later, in the second group, Ray Willis opened up a nice hole for Mo Morris.

3) Even as they practiced, it was entertaining to watch the players watching the Blue Angels, even Holmgren at times.

4) Nate Burleson had a nice sideline catch with Kelly Jennings hanging off him; was one of best of training camp.

5) During one team session, Weaver de-cleated (I am questioning Boling if that is a word) Kevin Bentley.

This was a much shorter, much lighter session with the players in shells and helmets only. It was really hot and so there seemed to be some sluggishness.

After early drills there was some special teams play with the kickoff and kickoff return teams, as well as the field goal team. Josh Brown's foot is so much stronger than that of Kurt Smith, his place kicks going far deeper. Nate Burleson and rookie Josh Wilson were fielding the kickoffs while new special teams coach Bruce DeHaven, about whom I wrote a story for this morning's paper, worked on his blocking schemes.

After the special teams units practiced, the first, second and third teams went through practicing their plays. Then a third team led by David Greene helped the defensive backs work on their red zone defenses.

Will Heller missed practice with an injured ankle and is considered day-to-day.

After the practice, I rode the elevator upstairs with Holmgren and we talked for about 10 minutes about the Sonics. He obviously is a fan and took a keen interest in the inner workings of the arena situation.

In an earlier post, I wrote about how the offense whiffed nine times in a goal line situation. The details are that the first team ran three plays, the second team ran three plays, the third team ran three plays. I missed two of the plays, but here are the seven I got:

First team) Hasselbeck missed Ben Joppru on a pass to the end zone.

First team) Alexander rushes for about one yard

First team) Alexander gets zero yards

Second team) Brandon Green disrupts play and Niko Koutouvides hits Maurice Morris hard in backfield

Second team) Seneca Wallace incomplete pass to Leonard Stephens that Kevin Bentley broke up.

Second team) Missed play

Third team) Missed play

Third team) Stephens drops a pass from David Greene

Third team) Marquis Weeks stuffed at the line

Here's today's links for Frank's story on new special team's coach Bruce DeHaven and Dave's column on secondary coach Jim Mora.

Arizona Cardinals
Former Hawk Oliver Celestin has signed with the Cards. Top pick Levi Brown still hasn't signed but is closer. New coach Ken Whisenhunt is varying practice times to keep things fresh. Kicker Neil Rackers is using last year's missed kicks, particularly the miss against Chicago, as motivation. Apparently the Cardinals offensive line play is much improved. Realistically there was no other way to go but up. More news on Pat Tillman's death. This time Donald Rumsfeld is questioned.

San Francisco 49ers
The coaches are getting into the faces of players more to prove their points. The Niners are expecting big things from big money free agent signee Nate Clements. A few other notes from camp.

St. Louis Rams
Running back Stephen Jackson has his sights set on a big year. Like the Hawks, the Rams have a cornerback that's impressing people in camp.

Other stuff...
Sando's newest column on ESPN.com deals with John Elway being the only Denver player in the all of fame.

Deadspin.com has a column by a devoted Seahawks fan that many Hawk fans could identify with.

The Cowboys continue to drink the Ken Hamlin Kool Aid. This story has a player saying he's the best safety in the league. After watching the first three days of practice, I'll take Deon Grant and Brian Russell.

Finally, Joe Theissman is still confused why he wasn't asked back to Monday Night Football. I will say this, he was very friendly to the print media guys when the MNF crew was here last season.

With the Blue Angels flying overhead, the Hawks went through a 2 1/2 –hour morning practice. D.J. Hackett was back at practice after being with his wife for the birth of their son, Andre James, who will be called A.J. to his father’s D.J. Hackett was back working with the starters while Nate Burleson worked with the second unit.

David Kirtman suffered a broken hand that will require surgery immediately. The surgery, according to Mike Holmgren, will permit a shorter rehab time, and Kirtman could be back in a week to 10 days. If he had worn a glove for protection, the down time would have been even longer.

Holmgren talked about the need to get fullback Leonard Weaver even more playing time. Weaver missed last season with a high ankle sprain, but because of the age and mileage on 15-year vet Mack Strong, Holmgren was emphatic that Weaver needs to get more time on the field. “We’ve got to do that,” Holmgren said. “It’s time.”

Former center Robbie Tobeck attended the practice, looking much more trim than he was during his playing days (297 pounds). At one point, tackle Tom Ashworth turned to Tobeck, standing with the assembled media, and yelled, “What’s up, Slim?”

The practice started with drills, broke into some full-on scrimmaging, went back to drills, and then went to third-down, short-yardage situation and goal line situations. Stunningly, on nine consecutive possessions, the offense failed to score from the 2-yard line. Its best chance came when Leonard Stephens got behind the defense but then dropped a sure TD pass. Remember, Stephens dropped two passes on Wednesday, so I don’t think he has a long future with the team. Just a guess.

Three NFL officials attended the morning workout and refereed the scrimmage portions. Holmgren said they were scheduled to address the team today at 4. The officials spoke to the players about player conduct on Wednesday, and Holmgren said a big point of emphasis today would be spiking the ball after a play. A player apparently can spike it after a TD, but it will not be permitted after a mundane catch in the middle of the field.

I have to admit, yesterday was a bit overwhelming. Covering an NBA training camp is hectic, but there are only 15-20 players with whom you have to deal, and really you only need to pay attention to about 13 because you know the bottom seven are not going to be around after a few weeks. Having to get to know almost 90 players in an NFL training camp is a bit like watching the movie "300" and trying to keep track of all the warriors. The sheer numbers are staggering by comparison, and that doesn't take into account the ancillary folks who are simply helping out in one capacity or another.

Having said that, the Seahawks seem a lot more organized than the Sonics ever did. The players do their drills, a horn blows and everybody moves to the next set of drills. It is much more regimented, and it is abundantly clear that Mike Holmgren is king.

The facilities in Kirkland are beautiful, and it sounds like the ones at the new place in Renton are going to put these to shame. I have never been to Cheney, but I get the impression I lucked out with not having to go out there and simmer in the heat for a few weeks with nothing to do outside of the camp. It's nice to be able to leave the facility and drive home -- though Boling just walked into the press room and said it took him 3 hours to get to work this morning. Maybe he would rather be in Cheney.

The Seahawks will go back to two practices today, the morning in pads and afternoon in shorts.

D.J. Hackett should be back after his wife had a son on Tuesday. He missed Wednesday’s practices. Hackett’s progress will be interesting to follow. With the trade of Darrell Jackson, Hackett was elevated to the starting lineup ... at least as the depth chart was penciled in through minicamps. It appears that Hackett is one of the guys that Holmgren is going to press pretty hard. Occasionally, he’ll get on a guy a little to keep the fire lit. Already during this camp, he talked of Hackett having been “a little too casual” about playing at times in the past. There’s no question he’s come up with big plays, but Holmgren needs to see more from him as a starting receiver. By telling the press the other day that the only certainties with the receivers are that Branch will start and Engram will play, Holmgren made it clear that Hackett is going to have to keep working hard and developing to earn that starting job.

Some of your questions:

About the prospects of fullback David Kirtman, who broke his hand Wednesday … I agree with the comments that there’s a pretty tall stack of players in the backfield and this injury won’t help Kirtman’s chances to jump out of the crowd in the preseason.

About Chris Gray … as I’ve written here before, 37-year-old linemen are not going to look as sharp in the early days of training camp. Fact of nature. Gray is pretty wily. Unless he absolutely falls apart, he’s going to benefit from the trust that the staff has in him. If you just looked at how people have played at right guard, I’d start Ray Willis right now. He’s got plenty to learn, having moved from his more natural position of tackle, but he’s got a lot of potential, should eventually be a starter somewhere on the line anyway, so why not just get him in there and let that front five start to develop some chemistry and unity? Why? I’m sure it’s because there’s security in Gray’s experience and durability. It’s obviously a position in flux that we’ll have to watch as camp progresses.

Skijake1, I haven’t really kept my eye on Cameron Jensen much, so I don’t think I can give you a fair evaluation. I guess that also means that he hasn’t really jumped out from the crowd, either. I’ll try to watch when I can and get back to you.

About the Brock Huard commentaries … I liked those, too. I’d love it if we can keep those going. We’ve been kind of racing around trying to figure how to handle the weblog after Mike Sando’s departure, and I frankly don’t have a clue how to deal with the technological issues of putting taped interviews up here. I haven’t talked to Brock about it, but I presume he’d be willing to continue. We’ll look into it and do our best.

About steroid use in the NFL … players are tested for steroids. I presume that those who break the rules in that regard are getting caught. I also presume there could be performance-enhancers that are not yet being tested or detected. Daily headlines in the sports pages remind us that if people can find ways around the rules some are not above exploiting them. Beyond those general thoughts, I have no evidence to go on and no reason to speculate further.

I do have to get in the car and battle the traffic now, however. Took over 2 hours to get to Kirkland the last two mornings. Don't you love it when you turn on the radio and you hear that I-5, 18, 167, 405 and both Lake Washington bridges are all blocked? I need to use The News Tribune's helicopter.