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Monday, May 5th, 2008
Posted by Frank Hughes @ 10:50:53 pm
This is the story I wrote for tomorrow's News Tribune: KIRKLAND – Seattle Seahawks wide receiver Bobby Engram skipped Monday’s voluntary veteran mini-camp because he is upset about his contract, according to a source. Engram is displeased, according to the source, that he was the team’s most productive wide receiver last season but is scheduled to be its third-highest paid wideout this year.
Categories: Minicamps
• 58 comments
COMMENTS: Comment by charliesmith87 @ 23:01 - Monday, May 5th, 2008 
I hope this is not the case. I hate it when people dont honor a contract. Did he pay back the money he received when he was out with the thyroid issue? If they paid him then, he should honor the contract now.
Comment by rollo73 @ 23:06 - Monday, May 5th, 2008
He's a 35 year old possession receiver who had a career year when the first couple of options were injured. He's making pretty good money if you ask me.
Comment by benramm @ 23:08 - Monday, May 5th, 2008
If ever you tear up a contract for a guy... if for no other reason than to show that solid players are rewarded.
Comment by nidhighe @ 00:24 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
Engram deserves the money more than the overrated Branch does.
Comment by ALASKANSEAHAWK @ 00:26 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
Seahawks already overpaid someone past their prime on a long term contract....I hear it didn't work out too well... can't really remember his name, I think he played runningback or something like that. Come on Bobby, I thought you were a team player, did we really stab you in the back?
ok ok enough of the SA references... but if Engram was 10 years younger, I'd say yeah sure show him the money, but now? come on Comment by airbags @ 00:32 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
part of me says, "bobby, no!" the other part says, "PAY HIM!" so, i'm conflicted. Comment by bigmike04 @ 00:43 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
I say fine him every time he doesnt show up. He should honor his contract and be happy that he still playing. Doesnt he got enough money already now he just look like greedy little TO. If he want new contract than I say show him the door as he old and yet he comes up but if say 10yr younger than ya otherwise no thanks.
Nice doing knowing ya but dont let the door hit you where the sun doesnt shine. Nice to know players really care about the money, ya it not all guarteed but when teams that has not much left to make it cap atleast he can do is shut up and play and than leave after his contract end. Seahawks already tight with the caps. Comment by moo @ 01:05 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
This is the last thing we need. Ruskell seems to be in denial that at least until Branch gets healthy, WR is one of our weakest positions.
Comment by dover5005 @ 02:28 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
bobby engram some words that describe him
consistant hands productive 3rd down matt's goto guy pay him what he wants! Comment by bdub @ 02:33 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
I hate this. Does he deserve more money? Maybe. But he signed the contract so he has an obligation to fulfill it. If this is just a one or two day walkout then fine, but if this turns out to be much more and he pulls a DJack, one of my favorite players will no longer be a fav'.
Comment by Regis @ 02:49 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
It's not just that he deserves the money...it's that the salary cap has exploded over the last 2-3 years. Take a look at Hass' contract in 2005 compared to your average rookie QB nowadays.
The easiest way out of this mess would be to offer a contract extension that includes a nice lump sum. He's worth it not only in past production earned, but in the reliable consistency he would provide for the next 2-3 years. Comment by RichmondHawk @ 02:53 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
Bobby deserves a raise. He put up decent numbers last year and has little time left in his career so its understandable. Kudos for Ruskell for being really cheap though.
Give Bobby a raise and pay womack by the hour!!!!!! Comment by johneerocket @ 03:14 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
I'm waiting for more info to judge this. He didn't come for a voluntary workout, perhaps to show his displeasure at being paid half the other WRs for twice the production. You make the deal you make and sign the contract. Walter Jones didn't come to training camp for how many seasons? When he starts holding out on mandatory training until he gets more money it will be a different scenario. I think he deserves to be paid more, but it's not up to me.
Comment by TechWorlds @ 03:42 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
Screw him. He signed the deal just one year ago. This aint like this is an old contract.
I just lost alot of respect for him. Comment by bileen @ 04:11 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
NFL contracts are written in the team's favor - if Engram hadn't performed last year, there would have been nothing stopping the Hawks from reneging on their part of the contract; i.e., cutting him, so why do we get so upset when a player does this? Also, he probably didn't have any choice in signing a below market contract due to doubt that he could perform given his thyroid issue. Seeing that now he has proven he can perform despite his condition, I don't have any problem with what he is doing. Give him a contract extension with a decent signing bonus.
Comment by the3mitchells @ 04:11 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
I hope this isn't the case. If it is its just another case of what is so bad in the NFL, players moaning about money. They are well paid and should try joining us all in the real world where a salary of only a million and a half is a dream. Fair enough thousands of people don't turn up to watch us do our jobs but come on, the greed of the players is getting totally out of hand.
Work for a whole year and see how you feel about only getting a mil and a half for six months work. Comment by edstang45 @ 04:48 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
stirring it up agin eh?, one involuntary mini camp, if we are going to be relying on this guy pay him. By the way who's the Source?? If he shows today what then??
Comment by hawks4372 @ 04:58 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
I don't know why I'm surprised to read that there are people out there that are actually saying things like "Pay him!" and "Give him what he wants". At what point will it sink in with you dopes? Two seconds ago we cut an over-the-hill player because, among other things, he was too old to justify his contract. Yet you still want to throw as much money as it takes to make a 35-year-old small receiver happy. You guys are by far the least knowledgeable, lowest football IQ fans in the history of the world. The answer is 'shut up Engram, play out your year, then go make as much money as you want next year in the city of your choice'. Obviously he's trying to angle for one last guaranteed signing bonus because he knows he's about finished and you gullible stooges fall for it hook, line, and sinker. You're so frustratingly dumb.
Comment by JoSCh @ 05:52 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
Hey edstang45, reason and culpability aren't appreciated around these parts. Take your normal reaction and lack of psychosis elsewhere.
I think they should pay him a 20 mil bonus, break his legs, then cut him. I think that covers it. Comment by STTBM @ 06:33 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
Engram was not required to be at the camp. So he didnt show. Regardless of the reason, there is absolutely nothing wrong with him skipping a voluntary mini-camp.
Engram is underpaid, and underappreciated. He is far more valuable to this team than either Branch or Burleson, and yet is paid comparitevely little. However, the reason Bobby got all those balls thrown his way is because Branch got hurt, and Burleson is a pussy. Were Branch playing, Engram would not have been relied upon so heavily. The fact that it is obvious the Hawks intend to lean heavily on Engram during the first half of the year says that in all fairness, they should pay him an extra million bucks this year, or sign him to an extension. But Ruskell is cheap and he is very leary of aging players, because you never know when Father Time will catch up with them. Hopefully Bobby wont hold out of camp. As long as he shows up, he has done everything one could ask of a Seahawk. Timmay, dont screw this up! Sign Engram to another two years with a nice bonus, and lets get to the Super Bowl! Stop pinching pennies with star players---remember the Ice Fisherman Fiasco?! Comment by humiliator @ 06:53 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
How many times does the club honor their end of the contact? Ask Shaun?
The NFL contract means nothing. The second you don't perform you are cut. So if you are under-paid and productive get your money before we cut your a@#$%. Comment by Osiris33 @ 07:08 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
Give him an extra $mil and tell him to take it or leave it. He does deserve a little extra after the season he had.
Comment by firejimmoradotcom @ 07:24 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
There is EVERYTHING wrong with missing a voluntary camp. It is voluntary in name only.
This strategy worked out really well for DJack. Same (stupid) agent? Sure he's getting paid less, but most other teams would have cut him during ThyroidFest 2006 and at 34, not many teams would have been interested in him, if any. Good luck with that. Comment by eyeland @ 07:25 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
I think professional players would be wise if they didn't play this out in the press. I like Bobby alot but this "If" true is classless on his part.The Hawks did cover his butt when he had a life threatening medical condition. He could have easily been moved the next year by Ruskell. However that did not happen. Ruskell won't give into his pouting nor should he. Sitting out is a childish way to negotiate.
Comment by charliesmith87 @ 07:58 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
"How many times does the club honor their end of the contact? Ask Shaun?
The NFL contract means nothing. The second you don't perform you are cut." If I dont perform I too am at risk of losing my job. Its not just the NFL.
If I were Bobby I would be unhappy too. That being said, he has been in this league long enough to know the money game is played.
I am surprised and disappointed to see this about him, but then again, I will believe it when I see more about "the source." Until then this is just an inflammatory story. Generally, I dislike the media just because of things like this. Comment by JoeHawk51 @ 08:03 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
Players compensation is the main issue that could end up leading to a lockout soon as the CBA expires. I am a believer in pay for play. Last year Bobby's numbers were real big but that was in part due to a poor running game and inguries to other WR's. Now if you restructure his deal so that if he hits certain performance levels he gets more money, then you are enjoying more production as a team and then it should be OK for both sides. It is screwed up when the player gets big bucks no matter how they perform.
The future has to be in performance based pay. The press is not the place to work this out.
Correction : to know HOW the money game is played.
And just because we are unhappy that perhaps less deserving people are being paid more, that will ALWAYS be the case, and it does not necessitate grumbling and pouting. Anyway, he has been fun to watch but in time he too will be nothing but a fond memory. I am curious who our starting receivers will end up being this year. Comment by ProblemSolved @ 08:24 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
$1.7 million!!!! How is he expected to live off of $1.7 million? Has anyone seen our economy? Our housing is falling off and he must own two or three houses, so he is impacted two or three times as much as us. $1.7 million? Is he some sort of animal? What's he supposed to eat, food costs are rising! And then the price of gas! Our one or two car homes consume nothing compared to a home with five or six cars, plus all the airline mileage he has to pay to get between homes. $1.7 million! Please, give me a break, people cannot expect to live off of that small sum. Give him more! Give him more! Give him more!
Comment by BORNHAWK @ 08:48 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
I'd love to go to a game but I can't afford the ticket that pays his salary. Sometimes I think these guys take what they have for granted and forget about the game and their team.
Comment by bobbyk03 @ 08:53 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
Isn't this the same guy who dropped Matt's pass in the Rams wild card play-off game some years ago that would have won the game on the final play?
Isn't this also the same guy who dropped a key first down "catch" in the Super Bowl (on a 3rd down)? Isn't this the guy who nobody else really wanted last off-season? He should just play it out and go get his money as a FA for some other team next off-season (assuming there is more interest in him than a year ago). Comment by bobbyk03 @ 08:59 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
The national media doesn't care about the Seahawks. That means we can fly under the radar unless our own reporters try drumming up controversy about the team.
Why not pick a player who seems to be developing well and write a feature story on him? Or about someone with a feel good rags-to-the-NFL story? Comment by Audible @ 09:16 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
Maybe Engram should consider finding a new agent instead of complaining to the Seahawks about his salary. His contract should have had plenty of incentives to reward him for a stellar year.
Comment by CeaYoung @ 09:17 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
Kent, Obumanu, Taylor anyone? Out with the old... in with the new!
Look, I like Engram as much as the next but damn... a 35 year old slot receiver is pissed about his contract? I don't see why a younger, faster, stronger guy couldn't make the same catches from the slot. I'm assuming it comes down to knowing the system? I'm hoping this "source" is full of it. If not, however, I'm good with getting someone else some experience. That said... is anyone else feeling a bit scared of our receiving game? I know we have young, promising guys... but how much longer is it going to take? I dont know how good I feel about Burly being our number 1 guy. Comment by FBGHooper @ 09:21 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
"Seattle Seahawks wide receiver Bobby Engram skipped Monday’s voluntary veteran mini-camp because he is upset about his contract, according to a source."
Engram has been a first class guy. I don't see this as treating him with a lot of respect. Unless he comes forward and says this himself I view this as fairly irresponsible journalism. According to as source? Its embarrassing reading what sort of comments people are posting in this blog. This is a VOLUNTARY workout and that he missed. Wouldn't the better play here be giving him the benefit of the doubt until he makes a statement? What has he done to have earned so much scorn from you? I'm glad he's on this team. Fan backlash like this is embarrassing. Comment by PDXCOP80 @ 09:27 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
I think it is simple. If he has another year like last year, sign him to an extension/new contract with a signing bonus as a reward. We don't need to be paying a player that is 35 a big contract when they are on the downhill side of their career. Did he have a great year last year? Yes. But im tired of people wanting more money just because they had one great year.
Comment by bigmike04 @ 09:31 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
1.17 mil is more than any of us make in year. Oh my cant live on than when everyone on here could probably live on that. What selfish act on his behalf.
He probably got alot of incentive to make alot more money and if money is only reason he want new contract than cut him and go with young and fresh WR. Comment by Audible @ 09:39 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
Has Ruskell ever given a new contract to a player who was still under contract?
Comment by Audible @ 09:40 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
Does he negotiate with players under contract who are holding out?
Comment by trp1388 @ 10:12 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
untail their is a quote from him or his agent i dont care. The guy is 35 y/o knows EVERYTHING about this offense. At his age he needs a longer offseason then a rookie would. If he doesnt show up to training camp then you can all CRY.
Engram missing a little camp isnt much. It actualy HELPS the team cause now Kent, Taylor and the rest can get reps in his spot. He deserves the money. Branch has nothing on Engram even when Engram is 35. Engram has only been Hasselbecks Fav targets on 3rd down sinse he became the starting QB. Also younger, faster, stronger players cant replace Engram. Engram knows where to go when D's run zone, he knows what to do & where to go when Hasselbeck runs out of the pocket. Also he has had the best hands on this team from the time he joined Seattle. PAY HIM Comment by bdub @ 10:15 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
I don't know if he's ever given out a new contract for a player who is holding out, but they did just give Tatupu an extension
Comment by stormshadow @ 10:26 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
I see no problem with him wanting to be paid like a starting WR, since he will be for at least part of the year. He's been our most steady receiver and Matt's go to guy since 2001. I think he deserves a raise, especially for what he did last year and what we expect of him this year.
But it doesn't have to be a TO-like contract or anything. Something to show respect to him, for maybe just another year or two. People forget that players can get cut at ANY time, but for a player who has outperformed their contract, other than trying to quietly request a raise/new contract (which alot of times fall on deaf ears), their only other recourse is to do things like this. I would prefer he still show up, but i completely understand his position. Comment by yellaman @ 10:46 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
Bobby is in the last year of his deal and knows that this is his last opportunity to cash in. I don't like players wanting to renegotiate existing contracts but he does have a point as being the most reliable WR. I say give him a bonus (initiative) on existing contract and move on. If Booby meets certain playing numbers he then should be paid. I see this as Bobby's last year as a Seahawk.
Comment by yankinta @ 11:33 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
Show him the MONEY.
Comment by badcat63 @ 11:40 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
A little perspective. Some receivers play years beyond 35 in a productive fashion. Not many but some can. Perhaps Bobby is such a player. Perhaps not. But why leave $ on the table if just asking for more can be done? He hasn't done anything yet to show he is really upset, just asking for more $ after a good year. Do I like this action by players? No. But I understand it. I understand a skilled vet. asking for more after a good year much more than rookies getting HUGE $ before even a down is played. At least let him ask for more $.
And his current salary - $1.7M sounds like a lot and it is but if this IS his LAST year that's it. No more $ from say 35 yrs. old to what - 86 years old? Why not ask for more $ - it may be all you ever get from football - your lifetime career. And unless someone knows of some veteran slot WCO receivers who may be available after June 1 then what are our options? He will play this year and he is the professional we all feel he is. I think he is just being reasonable in asking for some $ after a good year, one "last" time, unless he pulls a Jerry Rice and plays several more years. If you had $2M in incentives and bonuses to spread around who would you give it to? Clearly we didn't give the big $ to a PK now in St. L, but maybe we can consider a little something for B.E. It may be a dangerous precedence and we shouldn't pay anything until after 1 - 3 pre-season games and we know what we have for WR's but talking about $ is o.k. with me. Just no hold outs. Bobby is a good guy and this shows a reasonable business person. GO SEAHAWKS Comment by armyfireman03 @ 11:58 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
Some people in here say oh now he is TO he wont honor his contract. But we all of us have jobs. If any of us were the best of or work group. Turning in more production than any co wouldnt we all want a raise.I too feel very conflicted with this one. Bobby has been nothing but so consistant for us. And a true profesinal on and off the field. Is it possible to add some possible bonus money based on performance this year?
Comment by ProblemSolved @ 12:13 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
His last years? Like he needs to cash in? JBFC, he has cashed in, even this last year of only $1.7 million would do him for life. People always say, "well, an NFL player only plays a few season and must look out for himself" if you cannot cut it on your rookie contract, for the rest of your life, then you are a waste. You are a college grad, or at least have some college, you are strong so go work in a warehouse, work on the Flats, don't cry to everyone else about your longevity and income. It would be like me crying if I didn't make a lifetimes worth of income within ten years. I am tired of this crap.
Comment by williambryan @ 12:27 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
Anybody who is resentful of Bobby for this is an idiot. Bobby signed a contract under the circumstances at the time and those circumstances had him as basically the slot guy, but things changed and with Hackett and Branch sidelined, Bobby stepped up and produced "PRODUCED!" like anumber 1. Don't say "well, he only produced like that because guys were injured and we had to pass more." You can say that about anybody! this guy only did that because this guy did this and this guy did that. Thats bullcrap. If someone outplays there contract they deserve a raise ( as bobby has) If someone underplays there contract they deserve to either restructure for less or be cut. its that simple.
And about the millions and millions argument. Yeah thats more money than any of us will see but you have to put it in perspective. If someone is making twice the money for half the production that is not right no matter how may zeroes are involved. Bobby has everyright to demand to be paid fairly and in this case that means a raise of more than a million dollars. Comment by nidhighe @ 12:52 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
All of you who think Engram has to honor the contract he signed seem to forget that teams dishonor contracts all the time. He had one of the best seasons ever by a Seahawks WR last year and deserves to be paid accordingly, even if it's only a one year extension.
Comparing him to Alexander is weak. Unlike Alexander, he played hard last year and is dependable. Frankly, I'd like to see Ruskell admit that he was fleeced out of a first round draft pick for Branch as well as a lot of money given to Branch. We would have been better off keeping that draft pick and just starting Engram all along. Comment by hawk9680 @ 12:53 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
Bobby signed the contract he knew the terms. I do agree though 1.7 is a little low, for the year he had. With that said it was one year. He needs to prove to us this year that it's not a fluke. Plus what if we give him the contract he wants and then after this year he retires? He's no 25 or 26 he's 35! Not many WR's past 33 are this productive. Injuries are starting to catch up to Marvin Harrison and showing that be true. Let's just hold on this and take it one day at a time Bobby. This is voluntary camp too so not too worried, plus he's in this system and is familiar with Matt let it be like Michael Strahan in New York don't rush relax, but be here for the Season. Give us 110% in the season too!
Comment by bobbyk03 @ 12:57 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
He got paid two years ago and didn't earn it. It's not his fault he got sick, but it's not the Seahawks fault they paid him a salary and he got sick for most of the season.
He had more production last year than he was paid. Oh well, that's the way it goes. Life isn't perfect and things aren't always fair. Comment by tribfan1 @ 13:25 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
Sounds a little like djack. I'm disappointed. All I can say to Bobby is: "You signed the contract, what good is your word?"
Comment by scottiedog65 @ 13:40 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
I think what gets lost in these players minds is that they sign a contract based off of their past production. So when Bobby signed that deal, he'd been a consistant 40-50 catch guy. So he was compensated as such. Now he should play his two year deal and if he wants a contract after that then he will be compensated according to his production most recently. If he makes anywhere close to the over 90 catches he had last year, then his next contract will probably reflect that. I think he'll just shoot himself in the foot if he makes these problems now because Ruskell won't sign him and nobody else will pay top dollar for a 36 year old receiver. He's more valuable to the Seahawks then he would be to any other team.
Comment by just_dave @ 14:02 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
"And his current salary - $1.7M sounds like a lot and it is but if this IS his LAST year that's it. No more $ from say 35 yrs. old to what - 86 years old? Why not ask for more $ - it may be all you ever get from football - your lifetime career."
Come on, it's not like he can't do something else. With that amount of cash, after he retires he can go back to school and become whatever he wants to be. Or he could invest it wisely. Or he could start a business. Remember, they ay that the average person has 6-7 careers in their lifetime. So why should Bobby be any different just because he plays professional football. Comment by Southendzone @ 15:34 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
NFL teams don't dishonor contracts by cutting players. That's why there's guaranteed money written into their contracts.
That being said I'd be in favor of making some concessions to Engram in this case. Maybe some incentive based targets so his base is still 1.7 this season, but if he meets or exceeds his last year production he could stand to earn a lot more. He's the best receiver on the team going into the season and he's always been a team guy. There's every reason to try and work with him on this. Comment by Regis @ 16:43 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
The mini-camp is voluntary, the paychecks weren't...the comparison is non sequitur.
There are very few players - on any team - who are worthy of being awarded loyalty over economics. It is a commodity that is not only rare, but is most likely dying out as the league becomes ever so much more money-conscious...and considering how tough it is for some teams to find 53 players that can stay out of jail, players like that are all the more valuable. Bobby is one of those players. I'd say Wally is another, as was Mack. Lofa has that potential, but still has a long way to go. I'm not even sure I'd put Hass in that category yet. They are the kind you try to keep on a team until their career is over. I not only believe that Bobby can still get the job done, but that he can also be a well-spring of practical knowledge to the rookies. And that coopts the argument that he's getting old...to let that experience walk out the door (possibly to get grabbed up and used against us) when throwing some leftover salary-cap money we've got lying around anyway would solve the problem doesn't make sense to me. Give him an extension plus a few million bonus, let him retire a Seahawk in 2-4 years, then put him in the Ring of Honor. It not only makes him happy, it makes the fans happy. As for the SA comparison, it remains to be seen whether shelling out money for two other vets will produce better results. If the running game's lousy again next year, who will even remember that we could have kept Shaun, had the same results and saved millions? Comment by DJammmer @ 18:56 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008
Audible said: "Has Ruskell ever given a new contract to a player who was still under contract? "
Tatupu. Comment by GladiatorHawk @ 20:58 - Tuesday, May 6th, 2008 http://www.seahawkblue.com
Players can't have it both ways.
I'd be for them getting contract increases for stellar play. However, they should take a hit in the paycheck when they underperform. Performance pay and single year contracts are the only equitable way to do it. Too bad it will never happen. Sign on the dotted line and live with it til the contract ends. Comments are not allowed from anonymous visitors. Please login or register to comment. |
Seahawks Insider
Frank Hughes took over the Seahawks beat and Seahawks Insider blog in July of 2007. Hughes covered the Sonics for The News Tribune from 1997-2007. Frank also contributes to ESPN.com, KJR-AM radio and Pro Sports Exchange. In 2005, Frank co-authored "Slick Watts's Tales from the Seattle SuperSonics." Frank lives in Seattle with his wife, two sons and yellow lab. News Tribune columnist Dave Boling and sports reporters Ryan Divish and Darrin Beene also contribute to the Seahawks Insider blog. Category
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