where there is no offseason
Eric D. Williams took over the Seahawks beat and Seahawks Insider blog in December. Williams has covered the Seahawks, Sonics and high school sports for The News Tribune since joining the paper in 2006. Eric lives in Tacoma with his wife and two children.
Tacoma News Tribune columnist Dave Boling also contributes to the Seahawks Insider blog.
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Thursday, January 8th, 2009
Posted by Eric Williams @ 12:12:15 am
It's certainly expected that with Greg Knapp in the fold as offensive coordinator the Seattle Seahawks will be more committed to establishing a running game.
However, I don’t think the Seahawks will be returning to the days of Ground Chuck when Curt Warner had it going in the 1980s.
The reason Knapp-led offenses ran the ball so much in Atlanta is because the passing game was inconsistent with Michael Vick learning a new offense. The same can be said about JaMarcus Russell in Oakland. Both of those players were young quarterbacks trying to adjust to the intricacies of a pro-style offense.
If you're looking for what kind of offensive production the Seahawks might have in 2009, I would take a look at the San Francisco 49ers numbers from 2001 to 2003 when Knapp was the offensive coordinator there.
The 49ers had a mobile, accurate passer in Jeff Garcia, and a dynamic receiver in a young Terrell Owens. The running backs for those years Knapp headed up the offense were Garrison Hearst and Kevan Barlow. Neither was an elite NFL back, but they had different running styles that complemented each other. Hearst was shifty and a good cutback runner with good vision. Barlow was a bruiser with good speed who could move a pile. Both were hard runners and tough to bring down.
Here are the numbers for those years.
2001 506 (pass) 509 (run) 49.8 percent pass (4th ranked offense in NFL)
2002 571 (pass) 489 (run) 53.8 percent pass (8th ranked offense in NFL)
2003 511 (pass) 499 (run) 50.5 percent pass ( 5th ranked offense in NFL)
The 49ers finished 12-4 in 2001, 10-6 in 2002 and 7-9 in 2003. Dennis Erickson finished 2-14 in 2004 and was gone at season’s end. During Knapp’s time as San Francisco’s offensive coordinator the 49ers threw 51.5 percent of the time. During Holmgren’s tenure in Seattle the Seahawks threw about 53 percent of the time, really not too far off.
The difference between Knapp and Holmgren could be when they choose to throw. Holmgren liked to throw on first down or in obvious running downs to create some unpredictability in the play-calling, where Knapp seems to follow a more traditional pattern of running on first down to establish the running game and throwing in obvious passing situations.
With Owens’ success in San Francisco, the Hawks may take a closer look at Michael Crabtree with the No. 4 overall pick to establish a physical receiver on the outside. Except for Nate Burleson and Deion Branch, Seattle does not have a lot of receivers who can beat one-on-one coverage consistently. And having Crabtree would give Seattle’s offense a big target on the outside who could convert easy throwing routes like hitches and slants into first downs on critical third-down plays when the Seahawks need to move the chains.
While I expect Hasselbeck to stay put, the Seahawks may see in Seneca Wallace what Knapp was trying to create in Vick – a quarterback who can run, but also is an accurate passer and good decision maker. Wallace’s mobility adds another dimension offensively, and Seattle may be willing to part with Hasselbeck’s hefty salary if they believe Wallace could be successful in a Knapp-led offense.
Categories: Seahawks Insider, Blog News
• 70 comments
NIGHTHAWK: If you are going to quote this, you should also include the part I mentioned about football players with this kind of injury.
"How many of them play professional football and get hit by 300 pound linemen? "
In my original post, you will see the following:
"I agree that it is doubtful a football player would NOT have a chronic bulging disc because of how regularly they over-exert and put pressure on their spine or that region of their body."
Critical reading skills are wonderful.
COMMENTS:
Their no way you get rid of Hasselback sorry. Wallace as QB isnt even worth rebuilding team around. The think with knapp is that he hasnt learn from his mistake on running QB they just sucks look at Russell and Vick. Both guys arent great QB.
You got great QB in hasselback so better learn to build your system around him.
You got great QB in hasselback so better learn to build your system around him.
I Like Matt, and he as been the face of our offense.
I am just wondering, even as he had holmgrens offense down and knew it and ran it like no other, is he going to be able to change up now at this stage in his carreer??? I hope so and if he is healthy you have to give him next season to see. But we better get plan "B" ready. So after the top two QB's in the draft what else may be out there in the 3rd round down?? I think barring CrabTree with the first pick, I'm wishing for two impact players on defense with the 1st two picks.
So whats left for QB and the rest of Ofeense.
I am just wondering, even as he had holmgrens offense down and knew it and ran it like no other, is he going to be able to change up now at this stage in his carreer??? I hope so and if he is healthy you have to give him next season to see. But we better get plan "B" ready. So after the top two QB's in the draft what else may be out there in the 3rd round down?? I think barring CrabTree with the first pick, I'm wishing for two impact players on defense with the 1st two picks.
So whats left for QB and the rest of Ofeense.
I want to like the Knapp hire, but there is just one image that I cannot get out of my head. It was when Knapp was the OC in San Francisco, and T.O. threw a huge fit on the sidelines. Knapp sat there and took it all, let T.O. walk all over him, and then retreated to a bench and looked like a defeated little child.
Was it a case of Knapp turning the other cheek, and not wanting to deal with it in the public eye? Or, was it that Knapp had no authority or respect with the players?
Was it a case of Knapp turning the other cheek, and not wanting to deal with it in the public eye? Or, was it that Knapp had no authority or respect with the players?
T.O. is like that guy at work who complains all the time, does no work that matters and still gets all the credit but when the you know what hits the fan you can never find him. He is the reason that any team he is on will NEVER win the Super Bowl. I would take any Bumpus, Kent, Payne and Robinson before I would cheer for a team with T.O. on it.
Not sure we can criticize Knapp for not controlling T.O. Who, exactly, has been successful there??? A short list to be sure.
Hey Eric - I love what you're doing with the blog. Terrific stuff - almost Sandolicious!
Moving Matt makes sense IF:
1. the injury situation is chronic and he'll never again be a 16 game guy (no one knows except the docs)
2. we're thinking of bringing in Bradford, Stafford or one of the other top QBs.
I like the idea of at least giving Seneca a package of plays for each game. With Knapp's Mike Vick experience, this is almost certain to happen.
Hey Eric - I love what you're doing with the blog. Terrific stuff - almost Sandolicious!
Moving Matt makes sense IF:
1. the injury situation is chronic and he'll never again be a 16 game guy (no one knows except the docs)
2. we're thinking of bringing in Bradford, Stafford or one of the other top QBs.
I like the idea of at least giving Seneca a package of plays for each game. With Knapp's Mike Vick experience, this is almost certain to happen.
I am wondering if Knapp is one of the few OCs who calls plays from the sideline. I always assumed most OCs sat up in a box during games. I'm so used to seeing head coaches on the sideline calling plays while the OC is off doing whatever it is they do from the box. Is that an unusual arrangement or how it is done on most teams when the OC calls the plays?
Even Bill Parcels was scared of TO and didn't hardly talk to him. I'll give Knapp a pass on that one.
I love Seneca as a back-up who can help carry the team in the absence of Matt. Going into a season with Seneca as a QB is a joke and Ruskell shouldn't be fired, he should be shot, if that's the case. He's gotta be too smart for that though, doesn't he?
I love Seneca as a back-up who can help carry the team in the absence of Matt. Going into a season with Seneca as a QB is a joke and Ruskell shouldn't be fired, he should be shot, if that's the case. He's gotta be too smart for that though, doesn't he?
This hire reeks of Ruskell. So much for ass/u/ming that Mora and by extension Ruskell is not going to hire Atlanta/Tampa Bay cronies. To pass over Jagodzinksi for tihs bum is the mark of lackey. A guy who got the play calling responsibilities taken away from him at mid-season and the offense improves as a result on a bad team is now going to be doing the same thing here. I'm underwhelmed. An offense of run, run, pass, punt altered by the occasional run, run, draw play punt just doesn't excite me. I'd lay even money our Defensive Co-ordinator is going to be Ed Donatell. After 09, we might be looking back on the 2008 season as the good old days.
By definition a bulging disk is "chronic" injury. They don't get better, they get worse. Period.
And Hasselbeck's cap number is a joke; over $9 million for the lowest rated starting QB in the NFL. It's time to move on. If you get sentimental in the NFL, you end up in last place.
The question of what to do with Hasselbeck is the #1 issue facing the team this offseason. How they deal with it will define the futures of Ruskell and Mora in Seattle, and will dictate the Seahawks fortunes for the next half decade.
Let's hope they do the right thing.
And Hasselbeck's cap number is a joke; over $9 million for the lowest rated starting QB in the NFL. It's time to move on. If you get sentimental in the NFL, you end up in last place.
The question of what to do with Hasselbeck is the #1 issue facing the team this offseason. How they deal with it will define the futures of Ruskell and Mora in Seattle, and will dictate the Seahawks fortunes for the next half decade.
Let's hope they do the right thing.
"By definition a bulging disk is "chronic" injury. They don't get better, they get worse. Period."
Wow, that's a pretty bold statement. How can you possibly defend that?
I disagree.
First, bulging discs can exist with few symptoms (including pain) and are often discovered during the treatment/diagnosis of an alternate problem.
Second, if you are going to be defining things, it is helpful to not over-generalize. A bulging disc being chronic or not is largely an individual, circumstantial event. I agree that it is doubtful a football player would NOT have a chronic bulging disc because of how regularly they over-exert and put pressure on their spine or that region of their body. But not ever bulging disc is determined to be "chronic".
There are a plenty of case reports and histories available on any standard literature search engine regarding patients with bulging discs, not herniated discs, who recover spontaneously, or with conservative treatment, within a couple of months.
Wow, that's a pretty bold statement. How can you possibly defend that?
I disagree.
First, bulging discs can exist with few symptoms (including pain) and are often discovered during the treatment/diagnosis of an alternate problem.
Second, if you are going to be defining things, it is helpful to not over-generalize. A bulging disc being chronic or not is largely an individual, circumstantial event. I agree that it is doubtful a football player would NOT have a chronic bulging disc because of how regularly they over-exert and put pressure on their spine or that region of their body. But not ever bulging disc is determined to be "chronic".
There are a plenty of case reports and histories available on any standard literature search engine regarding patients with bulging discs, not herniated discs, who recover spontaneously, or with conservative treatment, within a couple of months.
If we trade Hasselbeck away, we are giving up on next season. Period.
And if we're giving up next season, we should be concerned about getting rid of high cap guys who are also at the end of their careers like Walt, Grant, Kerney, etc. Take the cap hit now and next year while we are "rebuilding."
Maybe the Colts should get rid of Manning? He has a high cap number. He's in his thirties. He had a bum knee that required a few surgeries this past year.
There's plenty of guys in the NFL who have high cap numbers and the reason is because they are good. Matt, when healthy, is good and deserves the money. For a good QB, it's stupid to bitch about their high cap number. I could care less if his cap hit was $15 million next year. We need our franchise QB to win games for us next year. Hell, there are plenty of QBs in the NFL who are older than Hasselbeck. Jeff Garcia has had back issues and he's like 75 years old and still playing pretty well. Kerry Collins is older. McNabb is in his 30s. Delhome. Kurt Warner is older.
An elite CB costs about $8 million per season. You can't be serious and want to blow your wad on a CB and get rid of a QB? Or sign two average players for $4.5 million (Ruskell has proven to dump boatloads of money like this on average players like Grant).
It's totally stupid to give up on next year. Anything can still happen. I can see us turning this thing around with a good free agency period and draft.
If Bradford is still around at #4, I'm okay with taking him. He can sit and learn from Matt. We can still use free agency and the 2nd, 3rd, 4th round to try to bring in some impact players. I'm not as sold on Stafford though.
And if we're giving up next season, we should be concerned about getting rid of high cap guys who are also at the end of their careers like Walt, Grant, Kerney, etc. Take the cap hit now and next year while we are "rebuilding."
Maybe the Colts should get rid of Manning? He has a high cap number. He's in his thirties. He had a bum knee that required a few surgeries this past year.
There's plenty of guys in the NFL who have high cap numbers and the reason is because they are good. Matt, when healthy, is good and deserves the money. For a good QB, it's stupid to bitch about their high cap number. I could care less if his cap hit was $15 million next year. We need our franchise QB to win games for us next year. Hell, there are plenty of QBs in the NFL who are older than Hasselbeck. Jeff Garcia has had back issues and he's like 75 years old and still playing pretty well. Kerry Collins is older. McNabb is in his 30s. Delhome. Kurt Warner is older.
An elite CB costs about $8 million per season. You can't be serious and want to blow your wad on a CB and get rid of a QB? Or sign two average players for $4.5 million (Ruskell has proven to dump boatloads of money like this on average players like Grant).
It's totally stupid to give up on next year. Anything can still happen. I can see us turning this thing around with a good free agency period and draft.
If Bradford is still around at #4, I'm okay with taking him. He can sit and learn from Matt. We can still use free agency and the 2nd, 3rd, 4th round to try to bring in some impact players. I'm not as sold on Stafford though.
Eric,
Time to get the Seahawk Insider updated --- since you're now in charge and all. I don't see Frank Hughes in charge, so he should have his name out, especially since the blog receives regular (and informative) updates these days.
Also, a decent picture up top would be good as opposed to the poor quality Hasselbeck close up.
Time to get the Seahawk Insider updated --- since you're now in charge and all. I don't see Frank Hughes in charge, so he should have his name out, especially since the blog receives regular (and informative) updates these days.
Also, a decent picture up top would be good as opposed to the poor quality Hasselbeck close up.
Osiris33 - "If you get sentimental in the NFL, you end up in last place"... very true. Hasselback has been a great servant for the Seahawks but this is the start of a new era. I don't think you can pass up on the possibility of securing the team's next franchise QB with the fourth overall selection of the draft. Maybe Stafford will still be available there - if not, then Bradford [if he declares?] - or if not, then what about the possibility of trading down for Sanchez? Either way, talk of Seneca Wallace as a starting QB is ludicrous, in my opinion.
Maybe the talk of Hasselback possibly going to the Vikings might alert other teams to his availability and we could get some kind of bidding war going for him. I'd be loathe to accept anything less than a [low] first round pick for him. But I guess it depends on the league's perception of his ability to fully recover from his back problems.
As for Knapp, I'm perpared to give him the benefit of the doubt for the time being - although his previous exeperience doesn't fill me with excitement. As for our future defensive co-ordinator, I'm hoping for someone who will seek to implement a smash-mouth, physically intimidating defensive gameplan. Let's try a replicate Baltimore's model.
Maybe the talk of Hasselback possibly going to the Vikings might alert other teams to his availability and we could get some kind of bidding war going for him. I'd be loathe to accept anything less than a [low] first round pick for him. But I guess it depends on the league's perception of his ability to fully recover from his back problems.
As for Knapp, I'm perpared to give him the benefit of the doubt for the time being - although his previous exeperience doesn't fill me with excitement. As for our future defensive co-ordinator, I'm hoping for someone who will seek to implement a smash-mouth, physically intimidating defensive gameplan. Let's try a replicate Baltimore's model.
Hasselbeck last year....
There are 3 types of lies... White lies, BIG lies and statistics.
Hasselbecks QB rating last year was low for several reasons, which has been well blogged about here. The temp WR guys were doing their best... but as Holmgren said, some of these guys weren't ready to be on the field (yet). Inexperience with running the routes correctly, reading coverages for the defense they came up against, and timing was off, and running correct routes and timing was SOO important in Holmgren's WCO. Add, Hasselbeck was also getting rushed, sacked, hit WAYYY too much because of the "O" line issues. Again, timing problems.
Like I said, all WELL blogged!
So saying he was the lowest rated QB last year doesn't really tell the complete reason for that rating.
For Hasselbeck, there are only 2 questions in my mind. 1) His health (back) and 2) his age.
What do you think?
Go Hawks!
There are 3 types of lies... White lies, BIG lies and statistics.
Hasselbecks QB rating last year was low for several reasons, which has been well blogged about here. The temp WR guys were doing their best... but as Holmgren said, some of these guys weren't ready to be on the field (yet). Inexperience with running the routes correctly, reading coverages for the defense they came up against, and timing was off, and running correct routes and timing was SOO important in Holmgren's WCO. Add, Hasselbeck was also getting rushed, sacked, hit WAYYY too much because of the "O" line issues. Again, timing problems.
Like I said, all WELL blogged!
So saying he was the lowest rated QB last year doesn't really tell the complete reason for that rating.
For Hasselbeck, there are only 2 questions in my mind. 1) His health (back) and 2) his age.
What do you think?
Go Hawks!
Don't think there's a QB in the '09 draft worthy of the 4th pick. I like the idea of Crabtree, or look for a solid O-Lineman. If we feel like QB is the way to go I hope we drop down to take one.
Matt's back is the wildcard here. I'm hoping with almost a year off he can be healthy again in '09. If not then yes, it's time to rebuild. I like Seneca a lot, but I don't see him as a franchise QB. If Frye had the best O-Line in the world coupled with the best receivers in the world he could probably lead a team to an 8-8 record.
Matt's back is the wildcard here. I'm hoping with almost a year off he can be healthy again in '09. If not then yes, it's time to rebuild. I like Seneca a lot, but I don't see him as a franchise QB. If Frye had the best O-Line in the world coupled with the best receivers in the world he could probably lead a team to an 8-8 record.
Some of the people on this blog seemed jacked about the #4 pick in the draft all set to make $10 million per season but b!tch about a franchise QB set to make $9 million. Uhhh.
One thing that sucks about the #4 pick getting all that money is the fact that certain positions aren't worth $10 million.
Crabtree - no guarantee to be a stud, and WRs don't do very well in year #1 unless they are named Randy Moss. Sucks paying a WR $10 million to not be very good in his first year or two.
The only position I can justify paying that kind of money to is a franchise left tackle like Oher or a future franchise QB like Bradford.
And since I don't see a future Reggie White in the draft, I don't see paying $10 million to one of these defensive linemen who will be taken in the first round.
One thing that sucks about the #4 pick getting all that money is the fact that certain positions aren't worth $10 million.
Crabtree - no guarantee to be a stud, and WRs don't do very well in year #1 unless they are named Randy Moss. Sucks paying a WR $10 million to not be very good in his first year or two.
The only position I can justify paying that kind of money to is a franchise left tackle like Oher or a future franchise QB like Bradford.
And since I don't see a future Reggie White in the draft, I don't see paying $10 million to one of these defensive linemen who will be taken in the first round.
Seneca Wallace is better than Tavarius Jackson. If we take a QB at #4, I wonder how high of a pick the Vikings would give us for Seneca? I'm thinking probably a 4th rounder, but I'm not sure either. They have a damn good team, it's just that their QB position sucks.
I think Hasselback is gone. Look at the trend. Garcia (forgot him in my last post) - Vick - Russell - ?Wallace? I think Wallace is actually a poor backup QB. Watch him, he needs a few games to warm up and then he does well, he doesn't seem really "cracker jack" out of the box.
Snag a 2nd rounder for Hasselback, if that is even remotely accurate. Draft a QB in the later rounds. Work on the lines early in the draft.
As for getting rid of Ruskell (sp?), don't count on it, Allen let Trader Bob run the Blazers into the ground, let him screw with the Seahawks for a while before he finally axed him. Ruskell is here for a long time, get used to it.
Snag a 2nd rounder for Hasselback, if that is even remotely accurate. Draft a QB in the later rounds. Work on the lines early in the draft.
As for getting rid of Ruskell (sp?), don't count on it, Allen let Trader Bob run the Blazers into the ground, let him screw with the Seahawks for a while before he finally axed him. Ruskell is here for a long time, get used to it.
I cannot believe that nothing more than a sportswriters dream scenario (he also had them getting Cassel, Bulger and Rosenfels) has gotten this kind of attention. If Hasslebeck is damaged goods they aren't going to trade for him. If he's healthy there is no reason to trade him. Either was he's not going anywhere, it's as simple as that.
As for Knapp; This was clearly a Mora hire. I see no evidence that Ruskell had a hand in this at all. And yes, he was relieved of play calling duties in Oakland. And yes, they averaged almost a touchdown more a game (13.75 pts per game vs 20.25 pts per) after. However, in the span of those last 8 games they played 5 of the leagues bottom 10 defenses. He managed to still have them prepared enough to finish 10th in the league in rushing. The Oakland situation is such a clusterf that I can't see anyone having much more than moderate success there. It would have been nice to bring in Jagodzinksi, but they could have done much worse.
As for Knapp; This was clearly a Mora hire. I see no evidence that Ruskell had a hand in this at all. And yes, he was relieved of play calling duties in Oakland. And yes, they averaged almost a touchdown more a game (13.75 pts per game vs 20.25 pts per) after. However, in the span of those last 8 games they played 5 of the leagues bottom 10 defenses. He managed to still have them prepared enough to finish 10th in the league in rushing. The Oakland situation is such a clusterf that I can't see anyone having much more than moderate success there. It would have been nice to bring in Jagodzinksi, but they could have done much worse.
Yeah, pulling any useful information from Oakland right now is hard. That place is a mess, who knows why anything happens there, who besides Frasier Crane could figure out the different angles and people there?
Obviously from my posts I like "boring" football. I like defense and I like it when a team is a little scary on offense, so Knapp isn't so bad to me.
I will be the first to admit that the NFL can be very unpredictable (unless you're Mike Holmgren and it's 3rd and looong) so who really knows? How many times have we seen people fail when we thought they would succeed (All of the Belicheat spin off's) and succeed when we thought they'd fail (Shanahan - Belicheat)?
Obviously from my posts I like "boring" football. I like defense and I like it when a team is a little scary on offense, so Knapp isn't so bad to me.
I will be the first to admit that the NFL can be very unpredictable (unless you're Mike Holmgren and it's 3rd and looong) so who really knows? How many times have we seen people fail when we thought they would succeed (All of the Belicheat spin off's) and succeed when we thought they'd fail (Shanahan - Belicheat)?
"There are a plenty of case reports and histories available on any standard literature search engine regarding patients with bulging discs, not herniated discs, who recover spontaneously, or with conservative treatment, within a couple of months."
How many of them play professional football and get hit by 300 pound linemen?
Sanchez is not declaring for the draft.
"An elite CB costs about $8 million per season. You can't be serious and want to blow your wad on a CB and get rid of a QB? Or sign two average players for $4.5 million (Ruskell has proven to dump boatloads of money like this on average players like Grant)."
We already have two average players who are getting $4.5 million in 2009; Julius Jones and T.J. Duckett (who gets $2.5 mil in 09).
I think Hasselbeck's cap figure is $10.45 mil this year from what I read. $9.45 mil salary and $1 mil roster bonus.
How many of them play professional football and get hit by 300 pound linemen?
Sanchez is not declaring for the draft.
"An elite CB costs about $8 million per season. You can't be serious and want to blow your wad on a CB and get rid of a QB? Or sign two average players for $4.5 million (Ruskell has proven to dump boatloads of money like this on average players like Grant)."
We already have two average players who are getting $4.5 million in 2009; Julius Jones and T.J. Duckett (who gets $2.5 mil in 09).
I think Hasselbeck's cap figure is $10.45 mil this year from what I read. $9.45 mil salary and $1 mil roster bonus.
Using people's reasoning around here, They should be getting rid of Walt before Matt. Didn't the DR's say that a couple months of rest and his back will be fine?
Walt had micro-facture surgery on his knee and he weighs 300lbs.
Anyways, Matt is not done.
If you look at Knapp's numbers in Oakland then you need to give the 49er numbers the same (or more) consideration. Garcia, Hearst, TO. and top 10 in the league? Those are great numbers.
How come nobody mentions MoMo anymore?
Is he officially gone now? If so, I hope he becomes a 1000yd runner for somebody else.
Walt had micro-facture surgery on his knee and he weighs 300lbs.
Anyways, Matt is not done.
If you look at Knapp's numbers in Oakland then you need to give the 49er numbers the same (or more) consideration. Garcia, Hearst, TO. and top 10 in the league? Those are great numbers.
How come nobody mentions MoMo anymore?
Is he officially gone now? If so, I hope he becomes a 1000yd runner for somebody else.
I think you gotta take a lineman in the first round. It all starts and ends in the trenches; I don't know much but I know that.
I have a hunch Hasselbeck's career as a full time starter are over; professional athlete + age + bad back = retirement. I hope I'm wrong about that, math was never my strong suit.
I respectfully disagree with many posters about Wallace. I think he can more than hold the fort for several years till a new hot-shot can be trained up.
Here's to hoping that two years from now we're not pining for the Holmgren era.
Cheers
I have a hunch Hasselbeck's career as a full time starter are over; professional athlete + age + bad back = retirement. I hope I'm wrong about that, math was never my strong suit.
I respectfully disagree with many posters about Wallace. I think he can more than hold the fort for several years till a new hot-shot can be trained up.
Here's to hoping that two years from now we're not pining for the Holmgren era.
Cheers
I don't want to hold down the fort and be mediocre for a few years. Who really cares if we are 4-12 or 5-11 or 7-9? In either scenario, we don't win a Super Bowl and that's what is important.
You need a franchise QB and a healthy Matt is a franchise QB. Yes, he needs a line and WRs too. No QB can be successful without players around him.
However, the Vikings have the best combination of lines in all of football. When you've got guys like Kevin Williams, Pat Williams, Matt Birk, Jared Allen, Steve Hutchinson, and Bryant McKinney --- you can kick ass in the trenches all you want, but if you don't have a good QB it's not going to matter. They are not going to the Super Bowl because all of their QBs suck.
Yes, you need a good line but having a franchise QB is a must. And when you have one, you don't trade him away.
You need a franchise QB and a healthy Matt is a franchise QB. Yes, he needs a line and WRs too. No QB can be successful without players around him.
However, the Vikings have the best combination of lines in all of football. When you've got guys like Kevin Williams, Pat Williams, Matt Birk, Jared Allen, Steve Hutchinson, and Bryant McKinney --- you can kick ass in the trenches all you want, but if you don't have a good QB it's not going to matter. They are not going to the Super Bowl because all of their QBs suck.
Yes, you need a good line but having a franchise QB is a must. And when you have one, you don't trade him away.
NIGHTHAWK: If you are going to quote this, you should also include the part I mentioned about football players with this kind of injury.
"How many of them play professional football and get hit by 300 pound linemen? "
In my original post, you will see the following:
"I agree that it is doubtful a football player would NOT have a chronic bulging disc because of how regularly they over-exert and put pressure on their spine or that region of their body."
Critical reading skills are wonderful.
Well, let's say we add Marinelli as the DC to go with Knapp as the OC and Mora as the HC.
Here's the good news: we just hired the coach (Knapp) that was associated with the team that had more wins than the other two members of the braintrust combined!
Of course, that would be 5 wins compared to the combined total of 4 for Mora and Marinelli.... why do I not feel good about the "winning tradition" being restored in 2009...
Here's the good news: we just hired the coach (Knapp) that was associated with the team that had more wins than the other two members of the braintrust combined!
Of course, that would be 5 wins compared to the combined total of 4 for Mora and Marinelli.... why do I not feel good about the "winning tradition" being restored in 2009...
Point is well made Dukeshire - but some injured guys get another chance with another team (Patrick Kerney would be a great example). And someone would make Matt their starter immediately if the Hawks gave up on him.
If it was up to me, Matt would be back. But Ruskell has never been shy about expunging underperforming players, no matter who they are (D-Jack? Michael Boulware? Ken Hamlin?).
I think the success of Ryan and Flacco is going to make a lot of people forget how hard it is for a rookie QB to play well. I could see Bradford coming in here, with he and Seneca both playing, each with a package of plays.
Once again, not what I would do - but I could see it happening.
If it was up to me, Matt would be back. But Ruskell has never been shy about expunging underperforming players, no matter who they are (D-Jack? Michael Boulware? Ken Hamlin?).
I think the success of Ryan and Flacco is going to make a lot of people forget how hard it is for a rookie QB to play well. I could see Bradford coming in here, with he and Seneca both playing, each with a package of plays.
Once again, not what I would do - but I could see it happening.
Take pass on college QB. The diffrent is Flaco and Ryan were good QB and adjust to playing in NFL. What makes you think someone like Bradford will.
DOnt want 4th pick on A QB unless you plan to rebuild this team.
The reason matt was hurt is because of the OL issues. SO draft OL that can protect his ass and if he healthy than he our best QB out their. He better than Wallace anyday and I for one think Wallace is just a career back.
If KNapp want Running QB he should be shot. Look at Vice Running Qb who not good QB, Russell probably wont pan out as NFL QB.
DOnt want 4th pick on A QB unless you plan to rebuild this team.
The reason matt was hurt is because of the OL issues. SO draft OL that can protect his ass and if he healthy than he our best QB out their. He better than Wallace anyday and I for one think Wallace is just a career back.
If KNapp want Running QB he should be shot. Look at Vice Running Qb who not good QB, Russell probably wont pan out as NFL QB.
Joe Flacco was a D1-AA player!! He wasn't exactly a sure thing coming to the NFL. Bradford is one of the most accurate college QB's to come out in a long time. No guarantee of course, but at #4, you don't get a guarantee.
I have to take issue that Matt was only hurt because of the line problems. Matt has been hurt pretty much every year, and his back has been a problem for a while now. Again, I'd bring him back, but I don't expect 16 starts.
Marinelli gets a pass for 2 reasons: Matt and Millen. The interest he's getting from other clubs is a testament to his quality as a coach.
I have to take issue that Matt was only hurt because of the line problems. Matt has been hurt pretty much every year, and his back has been a problem for a while now. Again, I'd bring him back, but I don't expect 16 starts.
Marinelli gets a pass for 2 reasons: Matt and Millen. The interest he's getting from other clubs is a testament to his quality as a coach.
There are a lot of people convinced that Bradford is a "franchise quarterback". I'm not convinced he's even a top 10 pick. And quite frankly, I think his numbers are grossly inflated.
Plus, name the last Heisman QB who made a dent in the NFL? Carson Palmer. And before him, you have to go back to Vinnie Testeverde.
Troy Smith, Leinart, Jason White, Eric Crouch, Chris Weinke, Danny Weurffel, Charlie Ward, Gino Torretta, Ty Detmer, and Andre Ware are all the other Heisman QB's in the last 20 years. Bust, bust, bust.
I wouldn't draft a QB at #4, I certainly wouldn't take a Heisman winner from the Big 12. And to be perfectly honest, I'd grab Tebow over Bradford.
Plus, name the last Heisman QB who made a dent in the NFL? Carson Palmer. And before him, you have to go back to Vinnie Testeverde.
Troy Smith, Leinart, Jason White, Eric Crouch, Chris Weinke, Danny Weurffel, Charlie Ward, Gino Torretta, Ty Detmer, and Andre Ware are all the other Heisman QB's in the last 20 years. Bust, bust, bust.
I wouldn't draft a QB at #4, I certainly wouldn't take a Heisman winner from the Big 12. And to be perfectly honest, I'd grab Tebow over Bradford.
This isn't the kind of injury that can be repaired through surgery, that is the significant difference. He is one year removed from his best (numbers wise) as a pro. The circumstances surrounding his decline, that were out of his control, make it impossible to write him off. Yes, even for Ruskell. Hasslebeck will have to prove, on the field, that his skills have deteriorated to the point that he becomes a liability. Make no mistake, the Seahawks have begun planning a future without Hass but that does not begin this off season.
great points made about Fitzgerald's impact on AZ offense. As a rookie he was good as well...but there were a lot of bad AZ teams with great WR's....so this decision on Crabtree comes down to many things:
1) How good can he be? Is he a Fitz type? Or more of a Koren type? Fitz would be worth top five pick. That guy can jump, has great hands, and work ethic. The other guy has questionable hands, issues off the field, and can jump. So- how does Crabtree stack up? I haven't watched him enough to know how good his hands are or how he catches the ball. Fitz attacks the ball in the air with those great hands.
2) Who else is there? If you stack up one of those tackles as a complete package, how do you pass on them?
1) How good can he be? Is he a Fitz type? Or more of a Koren type? Fitz would be worth top five pick. That guy can jump, has great hands, and work ethic. The other guy has questionable hands, issues off the field, and can jump. So- how does Crabtree stack up? I haven't watched him enough to know how good his hands are or how he catches the ball. Fitz attacks the ball in the air with those great hands.
2) Who else is there? If you stack up one of those tackles as a complete package, how do you pass on them?
Whether one chooses to give Marinelli a pass on the complete disaster that was / is/ and will be the Detroit Lions, and his role in that, is secondary to the fact his defensive philosophy is not in concert with the players Seattle has in place. That alone should be reason enough to look elsewhere. It seems impossible that he will come here.
My preference would be to trade down and get multiple picks out of it. Knapp is here, and there will be some changes. We know we have o-line problems, so go get a couple that can fit if ours can't. We'll have a new d-coordinator as well. When we have him and know what our defensive scheme will be, get a couple people who would work well in it if we have some who can't.
I don't think you have to take the absolute best at a given position to still get good value. Let's look at the 2nd or 3rd or 4th "best" tackles (offense and defense). Let's look at the 2nd or 3rd or 4th "best" safeties. Try to get more bang for the buck.
And FWIW, the only thing more annoying than continuing to tell Frank that you think he sucks and you want Sando back is to *continue* to bash him after he retires. Eric, you're doing great which has nothing to do with Frank or Sando.
I don't think you have to take the absolute best at a given position to still get good value. Let's look at the 2nd or 3rd or 4th "best" tackles (offense and defense). Let's look at the 2nd or 3rd or 4th "best" safeties. Try to get more bang for the buck.
And FWIW, the only thing more annoying than continuing to tell Frank that you think he sucks and you want Sando back is to *continue* to bash him after he retires. Eric, you're doing great which has nothing to do with Frank or Sando.
First off, next year will not be a playoff year. No matter how it is cut. Even if we were to somehow pull Crabtree and Mays in the draft and sign a Faneca type lineman! Again I love my Hawks, but if you look at the balance of our "division" the pendulum has already already swung to the Cardinals and 49ers. We're old, slow and undersized. Mora will... FIRE MORA... serve as a Dennis Erickson/Tom Flores type coach and be non-notable. I'll be excited for the new season coming up and continue to root my brains out for them, but i'm not expecting playoffs. Especially with the killer schedule we have next year!! I don't think you all are grasping the concept of that this team is rebuilding and having Mora as our coach will cause an era just like the M's!
-Fire Jim Mora Fan Club
-Fire Jim Mora Fan Club
QB_Sneak I like your logic about not drafting a QB at #4. The seahawks won't, but also you say you would rather have Tebow over Bradford. Well, who was the last good quarterback from Florida that made it in the NFL?? If you say Grossman I think i'll slap you!!! haha
The Seahawks are old at some critical positions (QB, OL) but overall they are one of the youngest teams in the league. Especially on D. There is no way this team will regress to the Tom Flores level. There is simply too much talent here, regardless of what Mora does. Just curious, who would you rather have to replace Holmgren?
So much talent that slopped their way through the season last year and got beat off the line and burned in the air? I know injuries effected us last year on both sides of the ball, but damn we just couldn't get off the field!
Anyone other than Mora!! I don't have any one coach specific in mind, but interview a bunch before you hand over the job to a guy that didn't prove anything in his first go round other than publicly state that he would coach the Huskies if they called. You can say all you want about the falcons the year they went to the NFC Championship game but the only reason why they did was because no one knew how to play Vick then.
Anyone other than Mora!! I don't have any one coach specific in mind, but interview a bunch before you hand over the job to a guy that didn't prove anything in his first go round other than publicly state that he would coach the Huskies if they called. You can say all you want about the falcons the year they went to the NFC Championship game but the only reason why they did was because no one knew how to play Vick then.
what's manical (need spell check) is the thought process of hiring him in the first place! Huskies look like they are going to be way better off without him (cause they didn't offer him the job) and the Hawks... well it is a wait and see, but i'm on the bandwagon to boo him and laugh when we are 2 years down the road and we hire someone else. How well did he do as our secondary coach last year? Year before that? ...Trufant contract year, no coaching from him! And he is going to be our head coach?!?
I agree that the entire situation was a debacle. That's yet another one on Ruskell. To be honest I'm not sure what to expect from Mora. I guess I'm hoping for the best but won't be surprised if the worst happens. (That's been my feeling since Ruskell got here) But if you were around for the Flores / Behring years, and I assume you were, then you know this collection of players is so far and away better than what was being rolled out then, the comparison is absurd.
haha ok, maybe i was over the top on that comparison. It's just so hard to see light at the end of the tunnel that seems to be dug deeper into the ground. Plus with the year that Seattle had in 08 i'm having the tendency of being cynical. ....though not about Mora
I'll take Mora over many coaches.
Brad Childress
Jim Haslett
Wade Phillips
Norv Turner
Marvin Lewis
Herm Edwards
Or former coaches who are idiots who want back in like:
Mike Tice (meathead)
Scott Linehan
Romeo
Martz
etc.
I think Mora will turn out to be an above average coach, perhaps even a well above average coach. Cetainly not a Billecheat, but not an idiot box either. I am happy with him as our coach, as long as Ruskell does a decent job in FA and the draft... Mora will turn out to be a positive shot in the arm for the 'Hawks in '09.
Brad Childress
Jim Haslett
Wade Phillips
Norv Turner
Marvin Lewis
Herm Edwards
Or former coaches who are idiots who want back in like:
Mike Tice (meathead)
Scott Linehan
Romeo
Martz
etc.
I think Mora will turn out to be an above average coach, perhaps even a well above average coach. Cetainly not a Billecheat, but not an idiot box either. I am happy with him as our coach, as long as Ruskell does a decent job in FA and the draft... Mora will turn out to be a positive shot in the arm for the 'Hawks in '09.
[i]Crabtree - no guarantee to be a stud, and WRs don't do very well in year #1 unless they are named Randy Moss. Sucks paying a WR $10 million to not be very good in his first year or two[/i]
So you saying DeSean Jackson and Eddie Royal weren't any good in their first season? Both in the West Coast offense I might add! So none of that "it takes 2-3 years to learn the offense" crap. We need a stud WR that defenses must plan for. No more of these undrafted or late round guys. They all had the deer in the headlights look when they had to step up.
So you saying DeSean Jackson and Eddie Royal weren't any good in their first season? Both in the West Coast offense I might add! So none of that "it takes 2-3 years to learn the offense" crap. We need a stud WR that defenses must plan for. No more of these undrafted or late round guys. They all had the deer in the headlights look when they had to step up.
The results (and reasons) for Knapp's strength - good running games - may also hint at a weakness - inability to develop quarterbacks. It doesn't seem like he was able to get Vick on track, or get Russell going. Not sure if he was responsible for Garcia since Mariucci might have been their QB guru then (like Holmgren was for Seattle.)
I would say this is another strong hint towards Hasselbeck being retained since of course he's a veteran (and so is Seneca for that matter.) There would be a question mark for me if they went to a rookie QB and Knapp was placed in charge of his development.
If only Holmgren would stick around as at least a part-time QB consultant this year!
I would say this is another strong hint towards Hasselbeck being retained since of course he's a veteran (and so is Seneca for that matter.) There would be a question mark for me if they went to a rookie QB and Knapp was placed in charge of his development.
If only Holmgren would stick around as at least a part-time QB consultant this year!
On the risks of drafting WR receivers high - this would be an interesting research article by someone, but I thought I read that high round WR's had the highest bust rate of any position (O-Line being the lowest risk.) That's where my apprehension comes from.
I don't mind drafting a wideout #4 but it must be because the scouts and staff are totally sold on the guy and are super excited about him - he blows the front office away. They must not draft a WR (or any player) just because he's "the highest rated guy at the position" or "we need to fill that position badly" or "we need a sexy pick to bring in fans."
Seattle has enough holes that they should be able to pick the very best player and still make the team better for next year.
I don't mind drafting a wideout #4 but it must be because the scouts and staff are totally sold on the guy and are super excited about him - he blows the front office away. They must not draft a WR (or any player) just because he's "the highest rated guy at the position" or "we need to fill that position badly" or "we need a sexy pick to bring in fans."
Seattle has enough holes that they should be able to pick the very best player and still make the team better for next year.
You're right, both Jackson and Royal are both in the Pro Bowl and are their teams go-to WRs. I'd take them over Randy Moss any day.
I like Eddie Royal. I think he's a very good WR. USUALLY rookie WRs aren't overly productive, especially in a WCO. But he's his teams #2 WR - teams account for Brandon Marshall. That guy is a moron, but he's a stud. One of the best WRs in the NFL. It's easier to be good when you have "the man" getting all the attention.
Crabtree would be expected to be the man right away (which would make Branch better). I don't see him stepping in like Randy Moss did (or anyone else does).
Do teams really game plan around Jackson? Or do they worry about Westbrook first and if Jackson happens to beat them... so be it.
I like Eddie Royal. I think he's a very good WR. USUALLY rookie WRs aren't overly productive, especially in a WCO. But he's his teams #2 WR - teams account for Brandon Marshall. That guy is a moron, but he's a stud. One of the best WRs in the NFL. It's easier to be good when you have "the man" getting all the attention.
Crabtree would be expected to be the man right away (which would make Branch better). I don't see him stepping in like Randy Moss did (or anyone else does).
Do teams really game plan around Jackson? Or do they worry about Westbrook first and if Jackson happens to beat them... so be it.
You have to get value for money on picking that high at 4 and really QB's and WR's have been total crapshoots at that level. Far too risky to drop that much cast on purely potential. We need more linemen on D and O but its well known that any QB or RB can look amazing behind a great line (See 37). No matter what our first round pick should be a Lineman. Putting 10 m into a rookie WR is crazy idea there is little proof that Crabtree will turn into a great NFL WR. We would be better off if Boldin still wants to bolt the Cards to trade our first round pick for him! We know he can play. Financially it would be cheaper as well.
has crabtree even declared? also, neither have tebow, bradford, or colt mccoy. i would support the pick of bradford, and just because we draft a QB high doesnt mean he's going to start. In fact, I'd be totally against starting a QB right away. They need at least a year... if not 2 or 3... just in time for Hasselbeck to finish up his career here. :)
I expect Bradford to be gone before we pick and IF Stafford is really good enough to be #4 overall, he will be gone too. Detroit and KC need a franchise QB pretty badly. I don't think Stafford will go that high though and for that reason among many I don't see us grabbing a QB at #4.
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